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Mark Entrekin: Hello, everyone. Hi, I'm Mark enterican. And we are here for the achieving unity Weekly, podcast Gonna have an exciting meeting today.
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Mark Entrekin: And we start right now at top of the hour, and go for 1 h and
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Mark Entrekin: go through some exciting information, because I have a wonderful guest
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Mark Entrekin: looking at the screen. Right now you can get the free Achieving Unity guide if you go out to markettricken.com.
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Mark Entrekin: hey? Just a little bit forward down there, down on the in the screens, and you'll see this. Put your name and email address in there. You get a free copy of our Achieving Unity Guide. Now.
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Mark Entrekin: looking good for all of us
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Mark Entrekin: who is achieving unity. Where does it come from? Well, it comes from creating solutions, one reality at a time. My company reality focused dynamics
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Mark Entrekin: solution focused success focused solutions.
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Mark Entrekin: And what we do is we transform the world. I am the chief transformational officer.
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Mark Entrekin: and I work toward achieving unity through encouragement, inspiration, and inclusion.
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Mark Entrekin: Our podcast is weekly right. Now it is every Thursday through the end of the month, which means we only have 2 more this year. So we're closing down the end of 2024 quite rapidly.
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Mark Entrekin: In 2025 they will move to Wednesdays, so the 1st one will be January 8.th We will not have one on the
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Mark Entrekin: on New Year's Day.
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Mark Entrekin: Well, when I talk about success, focus solutions and reality focus dynamics, that's where we want to go and please contact us for more information.
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Mark Entrekin: What can we do while using agile and lean outside of software as
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Mark Entrekin: mostly engineers and software engineers have worked in the past. We've used what's called agile to build upon completing
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Mark Entrekin: task and smaller minimum quantities.
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Mark Entrekin: Agile is the ability to create respond to changes and improvements. It enables success in uncertain and possibly struggling environments by emphasizing adaptability to better collaboration and communication. I'll show this in a minute to be leaving more even on the family side.
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Mark Entrekin: Lean is a methodology focused on maximizing value by minimizing waste and optimizing your processes through continuous improvement.
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Mark Entrekin: effectiveness, and efficiencies. I wrote an article on this, and it is in my blog.
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Mark Entrekin: the agile manifesto. Personally and professionally. Please feel free to look it up.
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Mark Entrekin: have questions contact me. I'd love to tell you more.
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Mark Entrekin: as I said, connect with me, and I'll show you how to break all products and services
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Mark Entrekin: personally and professionally down from the most complex business projects, including rocket scientists. I have worked for Lockheed, Martin and Boeing
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Mark Entrekin: to the basic steps of training our teenagers. Yes, they can be trained, even me. My parents did a great job. Well, at least I think so.
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Mark Entrekin: Think of busy mornings at a family breakfast. Everyone has somewhere to go from work to school to many other locations.
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Mark Entrekin: You ever thought about having a family stand-up meeting the night before. Each evening, during which everyone shares their task, for the next day
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Mark Entrekin: you play sticky notes with your Chore for that next morning your responsibilities on the refrigerator.
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Mark Entrekin: and each person can move their little sticky note from to do
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Mark Entrekin: to done in the morning. As things were accomplished.
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Mark Entrekin: you can create a breakfast station with pre-portioned ingredients and a weekly meal plan.
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Mark Entrekin: helping people get through the process and minimizing decision, fatigue and reducing time, spent searching for items that can help everyone participate in a smoother, more efficient process.
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Mark Entrekin: achieving unity through the encouragement, inspiration, and inclusion, including others.
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Mark Entrekin: Encouragement can be the powerful force that fuels the core of empowerment, empowering each other.
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Mark Entrekin: inspiring each other in achieving every goal.
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Mark Entrekin: Unity makes us a successful team.
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Mark Entrekin: include others and celebrate every victory, both personally
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Mark Entrekin: and professionally, because together we can overcome every challenge.
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Mark Entrekin: Do you know if someone's facing relationship challenges, maybe parenting difficulties?
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Mark Entrekin: Are you or someone, you know, struggling with relationship issues.
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Mark Entrekin: our parenting time issues as a divorced or divorcing parent.
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Mark Entrekin: we can transform that frustration into our standing understanding with what the frustration.
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Mark Entrekin: where is the value in our actions? Besides the frustrations that we get into.
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Mark Entrekin: we must realize that anger holds no value.
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Mark Entrekin: Anger is just actions not gaining effective results. A NGER. Actions not gaining effective results
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Mark Entrekin: from personal relationships to prenuptial agreements and nuptials are not required. But life happens. Let's learn to embrace and enjoy every moment and every challenge together as we do reach success
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Mark Entrekin: focused solutions, if you'd like. Here are my 2 QR codes, once for the website, home on your left.
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Mark Entrekin: Now, this is your website. Contact page on the right.
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Mark Entrekin: but achieving unity again through the power. And it is a strong power. People don't think about it. It's not a wimpy way out.
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Mark Entrekin: but it's that power of encouraging, inspiring, and including others personally and professionally.
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Mark Entrekin: So for upcoming, upcoming podcast, next week, we'll have Jill Loveland and she'll talk about happy holidays
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Mark Entrekin: a time for all of us through kindness.
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Mark Entrekin: Week after that we go to strive to thrive. 2,025 dot com.
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Mark Entrekin: Closing yesterday, 2024, building tomorrow, which is 2025.
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Mark Entrekin: Again, as I mentioned earlier, there will not be a podcast on the 1st week of January, we'll enjoy the start of our New Year.
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Mark Entrekin: But on January 8th we'll have a fresh start with relationships.
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Mark Entrekin: Amy Scoen will help us start the year off right? And how to get along better again. That'll be on January 8.th That's a Wednesday.
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Mark Entrekin: The next week will be naked leadership.
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Mark Entrekin: Shift your mindset with Carol Metz Murray. That'll be on the 15th of January. So put these on your calendar
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Mark Entrekin: schedule. Want to see you every week, if at all. Possible. Love hearing from you love talking with you.
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Mark Entrekin: And now for our special special guest.
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Mark Entrekin: Shindu Jaytan is a 15 year practitioner in diversity.
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Mark Entrekin: equity, inclusion, and justice. The DEIJ.
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Mark Entrekin: Management and education, with a Bachelor of science in Political science.
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Mark Entrekin: a master of science. In counseling, he started his work in Dei Advocacy in education, administration at several higher education institutions
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Mark Entrekin: serving in a variety of roles, including community director
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Mark Entrekin: director of cultural center and spiritual life and program director. His last few roles involved him serving as a senior Dei official at those institutions.
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Mark Entrekin: His work included inclusive community building, intercultural and cross-cultural education.
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Mark Entrekin: equitably policy, design and organization culture assessment.
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Mark Entrekin: With all this background he has transitioned out of the higher education.
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Mark Entrekin: Shindu served as the executive Director of Equity Labs a Deij, consulting and upskilling organization, serving for nonprofit.
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Mark Entrekin: for profit, nonprofit and governmental agencies of varying sizes and industries.
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Mark Entrekin: In his role he led the development of a full Dei upskilling curriculum.
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Mark Entrekin: a 1st of its kind. Dei dashboard, assessing organizational metrics and interpersonal.
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Mark Entrekin: interpersonal and epistemic and institutional levels
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Mark Entrekin: and a personal management strategy centering on love as an ethic of practice.
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Mark Entrekin: Shindu is pursuing his doctoral education in business management.
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Mark Entrekin: His research focus is management systems that facilitate Dei advancement within organizations. Wow! What a huge amount of education and knowledge in what we're doing. So let me stop the sharing quickly.
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Mark Entrekin: and let's introduce our special guest of the day. Shindu Jayten, Shindu, how are you today?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm good, Mark. Thank you so much. For inviting me to participate in the conversation. I'm truly humbled, and I'm I'm really excited to just kind of talk with you about.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): you know, Deij and the world, and how we make sense of it all.
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Mark Entrekin: I am so glad you're here. It's just awesome to have someone with your knowledge, your education.
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Mark Entrekin: the ability, your background. I can't tell you enough
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Mark Entrekin: how excited and honored I am for you to be here.
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Mark Entrekin: This is this is exciting.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Indeed, indeed.
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Mark Entrekin: So I'm pinning myself up here.
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Mark Entrekin: Make sure I'll get everything done. Beautiful getting all the technology set up for this wonderful presentation.
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Mark Entrekin: Chandu. Tell me, could you just give me a quick?
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Mark Entrekin: I told you a little bit about you. But what inspired you to pursue a career in diversity.
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Mark Entrekin: equity, inclusion and justice, and we, a lot of people, have heard the Dei you're in with a Deij. Tell us what pursued you to get into this career.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. So you know, like most deij practitioners, our purpose comes from our history right?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And for me, that meant, you know, I grew up in Sri Lanka
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): in the midst of a civil war like I was born in 1979. The Civil War in Sri Lanka started that year.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and it was a a civil war based on ethnicity between
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): minoritized Tamil people and majority Sinhalese people.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And right. It was a war that lasted until 2,009
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): cost several thousands of lives as a process.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and to me I learned very early on as a Tamil person from Sri Lanka what it means to not belong
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right. It was very evident, very early in my life, that
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): there were some spaces that I was not welcome. I didn't have access to.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and even if I did have access to, I would constantly be pushed to the margins.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And.
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Mark Entrekin: You didn't have access to those. Sorry to interrupt you, but you didn't have access to those, because.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Because of my ethnicity. It was really that simple right in Sri Lanka
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): we carry around these identity cards that identified us by ethnicity, and at any given time.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right like, you could be walking across the street, and a police officer can stop you and ask to see
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): their Id. And then based on what that? What it said you know the rest of the interaction follows.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): For instance, right like in in high school.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Our high school had both Tamil and Sinhalese people.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and it was the British system of education, so you could be appointed prefects.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But there was a disproportionality on who gets to be prefects based on ethnicity.
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Mark Entrekin: What does that mean when you're appointed pre.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): A prefect is kind of like a student leader, someone who kind of manages
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): kind of the day-to-day lives of younger students really
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): there was a disproportionality on who became prefix, based on ethnicity. There's a disproportionality on who gets to go to university
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): because there were kind of ethnic quotas on right. So the idea that of that, just because I was born Tamil
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): meant I didn't have access to some things became very.
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Mark Entrekin: And help me again. With these terms you were born. What.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Tamil. So in Sri Lanka there are 2 ethnicities, Tamil and Sinhalese.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and the and the ethnic war was based on these ethnicities. It was Tamil people and Sinhalese people.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And you know that in itself is a
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): historical relic of British occupation of the island. But
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that's a history lesson for for another time, perhaps.
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Mark Entrekin: It's interesting, though, how all of this comes about?
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Mark Entrekin: Because, as we've talked, has he talked about my speeches before?
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Mark Entrekin: There's so many things about our lives that are nothing more than social constructs.
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Mark Entrekin: And it's just somebody's opinion comes along. So I'm appreciating
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Mark Entrekin: that as you're talking about this, the definitions that you're sharing with us kind of opens up other doors that many of us have no idea
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Mark Entrekin: about that life of how you grew up. Please continue.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, and so I I grew up in that in that environment. Until I was 19.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And right like, once you realize that your your opportunities to succeed are capped just because of
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): who you are.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I and all all my family. We left Sri Lanka, and we came to the United States.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and I moved to Wisconsin.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Superior, Wisconsin, all the way up north right, and.
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Mark Entrekin: From Srilaka, which is very warm to far north, which is very cold. Okay.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes, I did, indeed I I distinctly remember the day
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that I realized I was living inside of a refrigerator.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And and so I you know, I moved to Wisconsin.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and there I found out kind of the the.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The relics of the American kind of slavery followed me there.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? Why? Because I'm a very dark skinned Sri Lankan.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): For the non-discerning eye I looked like a black person.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and so then there was a different kind of exclusion and marginalization that I experienced there.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So what I what I realized is that wherever I went
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I was looking for belonging access inclusion.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and eventually I just stopped trying to find it, and decided I might just have to create it.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that I might just have to build it.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And and that is kind of my journey to Deij work is that I'm not gonna kind of wait
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): for it to happen.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm going to do what I can to make it.
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Mark Entrekin: Wow! That's excellent.
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Mark Entrekin: What took you across that line, so to speak. Here's a lot of people that have been
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Mark Entrekin: raising maybe a similar lifestyle as you have.
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Mark Entrekin: They don't do anything. What was that
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Mark Entrekin: took you across that line? What was that trigger? What what happened.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Part of it, I think, is.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): It's a little bit of fatigue, right like just looking and looking and looking.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Part of it is a
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): kind of just a yearning like like, if I can't find it, then I'm going to build it.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and I think a part of it is a little bit of the
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the American ethos in some ways right like that is the economic term. The greater fool.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right? Like the greater fool, is someone who believes
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): they can succeed where everybody else has failed.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I am either that naive or that arrogant. To think
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that I might be able to do something about it.
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Mark Entrekin: And I I look up to that, though I mean shondu. That is the feeling that is the
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Mark Entrekin: basis I think we all need to grab onto. I'm so I'm told you. I'm very impressed.
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Mark Entrekin: What you've done. It's you did take that step. You you had that trigger
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Mark Entrekin: that took you to the next step. Please continue.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. And and you know, I think the
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I want to kind of acknowledge, however, that
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): people do the work of creating, belonging just by their embodiment, right? Like, certainly I've made a career out of it.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But right like, if you're black or queer, or trans, sometimes just existing
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right, being in spaces that have always told you you don't belong is in itself a kind of resistance. That's a kind of work to say no, no, I do belong.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): You are going to listen to me. You are going to take me seriously.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): so I don't want to discount the work that all of those people are doing on a daily basis.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? So.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But I do think right like
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): we still have to kind of collect all of that wisdom. All of that experience and put it up on a shining pedestal and say.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): this is kind of the the ideals
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): of of the American ethos that we need to aspire to.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The arrogance, of course, is an immigrant telling Americans that, but somebody has to right.
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Mark Entrekin: I think that's the one thing that we all need. And when I'll talk about reality, focus dynamics and creating solutions, one reality at a time.
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Mark Entrekin: I guess that's why I look up to you in the process, because what you said is so true.
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Mark Entrekin: We have all been raised on our cultures and our learnings.
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Mark Entrekin: and they become somewhat of a habit, and we know better.
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Mark Entrekin: But we follow that comfort level
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Mark Entrekin: instead of asking those questions. So I'm impressed that you have, taking that extra step.
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Mark Entrekin: The extra energy.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Thank you.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Thank you.
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Mark Entrekin: You. I mean, it's what we need to do. And please continue. But that
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Mark Entrekin: that's what I look up to, and that's what I hope I can bring to more people. I hope we can bring to more people
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Mark Entrekin: once it. Listen to this, and they're the ones we share this with and those that also share it.
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Mark Entrekin: that we can take that what do you call it? The ethos.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes.
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Mark Entrekin: Panyama.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): American ethos. Yeah, that's what I call it.
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Mark Entrekin: Okay.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. And and to me, right? Like, the the process of
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): working towards that ideal begins with
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): an honest accounting of our histories right?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): because, you know, we talk about how
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): you know race is a social construction, or gender or sexuality or ethnicity is a social construction.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That construction project started centuries ago in our histories. Right?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And what.
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Mark Entrekin: It did.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): What we have done is we've built a set of evaluations and coded them
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): into every aspect of of our lives. Right and culture is always created in this dual process of performance. Evaluation. We do something.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and then we evaluate it as good, bad, better, worse, etc.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And then what we do is we create a set of rules, policies, government, or governance
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that entrench those evaluations into our ways of life.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? So that is the social construction project
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and the the evaluations have too often been based on our social identities, masculinity, femininity, male, female
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): color, race, ability, sexuality, etc. Right? And then what we do is, we say, these are good, these are bad, these are better, these are worse.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and we have kind of encoded all of that into our laws, our practices. And that's the Social construction project.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? So the work of Deij
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): is to disrupt that, to say.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): no, no. These kinds of evaluations based on identities don't work.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): they are harmful, they are hurtful.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and they don't really serve the greater good. The
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the the larger enterprise. Right? That, I think, is the Deij project.
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Mark Entrekin: And that's excellent, because, again, that's diversity.
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Mark Entrekin: equity, and inclusion. And then you work in there that is mentioned earlier the J for justice.
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Mark Entrekin: and I think that the J is a great way to
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Mark Entrekin: close the Dei, because that's all that Dei is asking for right diversities, equity, and inclusion.
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Mark Entrekin: And then the justice is what helps us maintain that ability to be diverse.
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Mark Entrekin: to have and enjoy that equity
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Mark Entrekin: and to include others. Go ahead.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. And and the justice piece is recognizing that where there is historical injustice there has to be remedies
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right? Otherwise, all of the equity processes that you have
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): will still leave people in different spaces.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So so that, I think, is the justice component. One is to look back and say, we have to remedy historical injustice.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and we have to commit to not do any further harm. Based on these kind of social identities.
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Mark Entrekin: And that's the remedy.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That is the remedy.
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Mark Entrekin: In that social harm.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes, absolutely spot on.
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Mark Entrekin: And that we don't have a way right now. There's not a magic switch.
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Mark Entrekin: There's not a magic wand, a switch somewhere. We can turn to achieve that, that
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Mark Entrekin: ability is going to go through a lot of education, a lot of learning.
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Mark Entrekin: changing our ideas, reversing maybe some ideas.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Absolutely, definitely reversing some ideas. Right? Because, though right, like that social construct that you were talking about is in place.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that those social constructs are taught and learned every time we practice them.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And so we certainly have to reverse some of those ideas, those ways of being and knowing
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that have afforded us a lot of comfort.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and you know the justice project asks us
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): to to kind of come to the edge of that comfort, to say.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): what if what? There is something that's uncomfortable to me?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But it gives someone else
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the the decency and the integrity and the humanity that has so long been not granted to them.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): What if my discomfort allows for that integrity and humanity for them.
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Mark Entrekin: I would like to. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that's why I'd like to question it right there.
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Mark Entrekin: Yeah, how can putting someone else down, have any
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Mark Entrekin: ethical value. How can that be beneficial overall
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Mark Entrekin: for anyone? It may benefit that one person that may be insecure, possibly immature.
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Mark Entrekin: But how can
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Mark Entrekin: a social construct of any kind that puts someone else down just because that one or 2 or group of people all of a sudden feel better? How can that be of value? On the whole.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think the key word there is ethical value, right? Like it does not have ethical value.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): but it certainly can have
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): more kind of monetary value, right? Because one of the things. And you know, we're having this conversation
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right around human Rights Day.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think one of the things that we have to recognize is that
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): in a lot of ways we have commoditized human rights.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We have commercialized human rights right? Like the things that
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): if I asked a hundred people, 99 people will say
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right, like food, shelter, education, health, these are human rights.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But we have also commercialized all of them. You can make a profit out of food, education, health.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and shelter.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So what happens then is because we can do that
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): because we can make a profit off of that.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We can justify putting someone else down.
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Mark Entrekin: And I love what you're saying.
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Mark Entrekin: but that's why I push the word we.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): A lot because it is we.
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Mark Entrekin: But whenever I hear the word.
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Mark Entrekin: or we in types, any sort of anger.
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Mark Entrekin: hate, or prejudice, I want to distance myself, distance myself.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, out of that sort of we because.
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Mark Entrekin: That's not we.
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Mark Entrekin: That is a, again, a social construct that may be created by
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Mark Entrekin: 1, 2, or a group of people
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Mark Entrekin: that bring others into that group with that negative value.
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Mark Entrekin: And again, that's, I feel, is based on that one or 2 or groups position on immaturity or insecurity.
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Mark Entrekin: because where is their value?
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Mark Entrekin: You talk about monetary been? That group can bring up an exchange of funding finances with who they enroll
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Mark Entrekin: into their groups.
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Mark Entrekin: But overall the we is a small we, because when we put it out on the table.
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Mark Entrekin: we put out to a majority of people.
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Mark Entrekin: Don't we see that people do understand when they're educated.
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Mark Entrekin: when they have that knowledge that wait a minute.
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Mark Entrekin: Maybe that's not right.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah.
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Mark Entrekin: Maybe they're not part of that. We.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Well, I think the the practice of human classification of us and other has
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): has long existed right like from from the beginning of human history. We've seen the Us. And the other.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and the and there is comfort in the we right there. There's comfort in.
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Mark Entrekin: If I if I can start, interrupt you right there. But please continue that. But
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Mark Entrekin: if I get her name right, I get the name right, Anas. A nice
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Mark Entrekin: said it is the at least okay, at least said it is the royal quote, unquote.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes.
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Mark Entrekin: Weed has been talked about. Yeah, San Elise, thank you.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. And the regular.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The comfort in we is what makes us justify our treatment of the other.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And that has always been true. Why? Because we, the royal, we like to be around. People who
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): look like us sound like us think like us talk like us walk like us. Right. So there is comfort in that.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And it is that same comfort, then said, then tells us.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I am okay with doing harm to the other in the service of we
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right. That is the trend that has gotten us to this point
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): where we there isn't an ethical justification for how we treat the other.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But there is a monetary and security justification
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): for why we treat the other right like
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the entire rhetoric around immigrants right now, right is a perfect example of precisely that phenomena where we
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): have created a narrative that says that other is dangerous.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and therefore we justify treatment of immigrants in a particular way, passing laws, cutting, funding, etc.
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Mark Entrekin: And then who defined what dangerous is? Where?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Question.
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Mark Entrekin: Danger that we're hearing? It's coming up of? Who is it going to cost, and who has to pay.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes, that is the mother of all questions. Right? Where does that definition come from? And, more importantly, who does it serve right?
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think the the DEIJ.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Practice, invites us to consider exactly those questions right like, who's truths are we listening to
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and in service? Of whose benefit are we enacting these policies? And when you question that question kind of
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): every practice and policy through those 2 lenses, what we start to recognize is that we are upholding some of those historical harms where we've just gotten
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): so comfortable with that, and and and the and the truth of it is, mark the
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): even. The monetary argument starts to fail when you realize
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that the march towards a more diverse community is inevitable.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): There is no turning that back right by
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): conservative estimates, suggest by 2035 majority of the States will be majority minority states.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That means
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): who you're going to go to school with, who you're going to date, who you're going to marry, who your clients are, who your customers are, what kind of products you design.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): All of that has to change, to, to
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): kind of attend to this increasingly diverse community.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So the better business sense is to equip equip yourself for that reality.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): You're going to make more money if you are an organization that attends to the needs of more diverse people. So even the monetary logic starts to fail at some point.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): If you want to listen.
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Mark Entrekin: And I think that brings up a great point right there.
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Mark Entrekin: and I think feeds back into what Annalise was saying. That Royal we, when he said, It's
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Mark Entrekin: going to be the situation of are we losing some of the royalty in the we?
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Mark Entrekin: Are we coming out to more of a strength among all of us going forward.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think that's that's the
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that's the aspiration, right? Like the recognition that a a more multicultural, a more connected.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): a more kind, a more loving community is a.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): is a more productive community. It is a more.
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Mark Entrekin: Accepting community. It's more accepting.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): It is more colorful, and and I think the right like there's benefit in working towards that.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And that is kind of the the Deij project right like that's what
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I speak about when I'm in front of a C-suite trying to convince them that right like.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And and I often tell them this is that you know
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the fastest way to irrelevance in a changing world is to stand still.
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Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and organizations can't afford to do that anymore. They have to change with the world.
355
00:35:29.020 --> 00:35:31.239
Mark Entrekin: If they want to continue to profit.
356
00:35:31.710 --> 00:35:37.979
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Exactly exactly, just to survive. They're going to have to do that.
357
00:35:38.220 --> 00:35:40.270
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So absolutely.
358
00:35:40.490 --> 00:35:47.260
Mark Entrekin: And you mentioned, whose truth are we listening to? And that comes out to? Where is the truth?
359
00:35:47.270 --> 00:35:52.230
Mark Entrekin: Because if we're looking, if we're listening to the whose truth is it?
360
00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:56.629
Mark Entrekin: Truly the truth? Is it fact?
361
00:35:56.970 --> 00:36:07.440
Mark Entrekin: And that's, I think, one of the things that we come out. And I think, and appreciating at least his comments. Here is it mentioned just a question of whose eyes you're looking, through.
362
00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:15.020
Mark Entrekin: whose eyes are sharing that idea that construct that concept.
363
00:36:15.740 --> 00:36:20.470
Mark Entrekin: And how are we going to accept or not accept that as we grow forward.
364
00:36:21.520 --> 00:36:30.350
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And and I think part of that begins with the recognition that there are facts.
365
00:36:30.890 --> 00:36:38.390
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and there are experiences and embedded within. Those experiences are subjective truths
366
00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:52.960
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that we have to acknowledge, not necessarily as universal truths, but at least as subjective truths. To say, this person experienced the world in this particular way.
367
00:36:53.130 --> 00:36:58.620
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right like you might look at that and say, yes, but
368
00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:04.310
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that's not how I experienced it absolutely. It is not, and it doesn't have to be.
369
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:09.289
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): but we can still be kind and curious enough
370
00:37:09.520 --> 00:37:13.819
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): to ask someone, tell me how you experience this world.
371
00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:21.810
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and when they tell us we listen to them with care and curiosity and empathy.
372
00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:28.649
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and then commit to saying, I can do whatever I can to make that better for you.
373
00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:30.470
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We can do that.
374
00:37:30.690 --> 00:37:34.189
Mark Entrekin: We are. We are good enough people that we can do that.
375
00:37:34.370 --> 00:37:35.950
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): If we choose to.
376
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:46.870
Mark Entrekin: If we choose to, and the choice comes from understanding that education of what is good.
377
00:37:47.810 --> 00:37:56.610
Mark Entrekin: and we always come into the what is right or wrong, and sometimes that is a very manipulative.
378
00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:57.230
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Hmm.
379
00:37:57.230 --> 00:38:02.660
Mark Entrekin: Process. But what is good for all in the process?
380
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:11.489
Mark Entrekin: What can we? How can we benefit as I talk about? Where is the value. And that's the domain I have. Where's the value.com? Where is the value.com?
381
00:38:11.680 --> 00:38:14.790
Mark Entrekin: Where is the value in what we're doing?
382
00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:17.230
Mark Entrekin: And how does that value grow.
383
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:24.409
Mark Entrekin: going forward without some of that immaturity, insecurity, and judgment of others?
384
00:38:24.740 --> 00:38:26.832
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah. Well, so
385
00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:34.250
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): when I was doing my doc program at the University of Iowa, one of the things that I
386
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:45.149
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): taught about is that education can tell you what is.
387
00:38:46.580 --> 00:38:49.630
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): quote unquote, good, according to kind of.
388
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.200
Mark Entrekin: Someone.
389
00:38:51.990 --> 00:38:56.419
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right, dominant or normal concepts of what is good.
390
00:38:57.408 --> 00:39:01.079
Mark Entrekin: Still perspective. Sorry about you. But yeah, the someone's.
391
00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:08.220
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I was getting to that. I was getting to that. Education tells you what is the royal good, if you will.
392
00:39:08.300 --> 00:39:12.500
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Curiosity tells you what is the subjective good?
393
00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:16.920
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? I can ask you. Tell me what is good for you.
394
00:39:18.060 --> 00:39:20.670
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Tell me why that is good for you.
395
00:39:21.170 --> 00:39:27.420
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? And the and this goes back to that idea of a social construct right?
396
00:39:27.870 --> 00:39:34.399
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The Social Contracts creates a hierarchy of what is good, based on
397
00:39:34.580 --> 00:39:37.189
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): people who hold positions of power.
398
00:39:38.290 --> 00:39:46.870
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The subjective good comes when you ask the people who are living in the margins who are invisible, what is good for you?
399
00:39:47.910 --> 00:39:56.129
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And so the so. The idea, then, is to kind of enact this this communication sequence.
400
00:39:56.290 --> 00:39:59.189
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? You start with curiosity.
401
00:40:00.290 --> 00:40:09.029
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Second, you invite storytelling, 3, rd you empathically receive the stories that are told.
402
00:40:09.370 --> 00:40:12.220
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And then, 4, th you commit
403
00:40:12.570 --> 00:40:18.750
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): to acting on the story that has just been told to say, I'm going to do better, for you
404
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:26.740
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): relate that communication, sequence of curiosity, storytelling, empathic reception, and commitment to well-being
405
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.699
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that is kind of the pathway
406
00:40:30.020 --> 00:40:37.130
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): to kind of contesting this idea of a of a royal good or a normal good.
407
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:43.930
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and attending to the subjective good of people who are too often left in the margins.
408
00:40:44.450 --> 00:40:51.619
Mark Entrekin: I like what you're saying, and we talked a little bit about how you got into the Dei in your world and come from Sri Lanka.
409
00:40:51.780 --> 00:41:01.009
Mark Entrekin: Can you share, maybe, some experiences or moments that significantly shaped your understanding of the deij?
410
00:41:01.310 --> 00:41:07.480
Mark Entrekin: What, for example, moments of experience, what have you had troubles, and what were the troubles, and
411
00:41:07.490 --> 00:41:09.650
Mark Entrekin: how have you experienced your work?
412
00:41:11.430 --> 00:41:14.271
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, I write like the
413
00:41:15.160 --> 00:41:22.710
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think the second week that I arrived in Wisconsin I was walking down
414
00:41:25.030 --> 00:41:29.019
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Catlin Avenue, and there was a car that drove by
415
00:41:29.410 --> 00:41:35.740
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): with some high school kids in there, and they yelled out the N-word at me.
416
00:41:35.990 --> 00:41:38.260
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): 2 weeks in the United States.
417
00:41:39.990 --> 00:41:43.779
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I, of course, yelled back, I'm Asian, you idiot!
418
00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:48.629
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Because that was all I could think of at the time.
419
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:55.810
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? So that was kind of the 1st occasion of saying, Oh, I'm an other here, too.
420
00:41:56.928 --> 00:41:59.861
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right. So that was my 1st experience.
421
00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:07.150
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And then I remember vividly remember a professor telling me.
422
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.198
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Oh, I don't expect you to write as well.
423
00:42:13.340 --> 00:42:14.520
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And of like.
424
00:42:14.950 --> 00:42:15.990
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Well.
425
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:22.799
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): if you'd known me, you would have known that I used to be a speechwriter for a Parliamentarian. I can write just fine.
426
00:42:23.742 --> 00:42:30.680
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? But so so those were kind of early days of recognizing that.
427
00:42:30.770 --> 00:42:34.330
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Oh, there is something different about this.
428
00:42:34.650 --> 00:42:42.009
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I vividly remember time where I decided to play club hockey
429
00:42:42.030 --> 00:42:46.290
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right like Skinny Sri Lankan. Dude, dark skinned, deciding
430
00:42:46.620 --> 00:42:49.010
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm going to play ice hockey.
431
00:42:49.660 --> 00:42:53.500
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and I remember the looks that I got saying.
432
00:42:53.500 --> 00:42:54.580
Mark Entrekin: So I get this.
433
00:42:55.720 --> 00:42:59.589
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Exactly right, saying you you don't. You don't belong.
434
00:42:59.590 --> 00:43:00.000
Mark Entrekin: You know.
435
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.560
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah,
436
00:43:02.470 --> 00:43:08.170
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And so those were kind of some of the early days. Then
437
00:43:09.073 --> 00:43:14.629
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): more recently, right? Like I was getting
438
00:43:15.405 --> 00:43:19.860
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'd I'd met my life partner in Iowa, and we were.
439
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:22.060
Mark Entrekin: Congratulations.
440
00:43:22.060 --> 00:43:29.540
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Thank you, and we were committed to each other, and then the You know
441
00:43:30.600 --> 00:43:40.450
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the Us. Administration shifted with some pretty, harsh, anti-immigrant rhetoric, and I remember my wife.
442
00:43:41.010 --> 00:43:45.220
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): my wife, now coming to me with tears in her eyes, and saying.
443
00:43:45.700 --> 00:43:48.290
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think we should just get legally married.
444
00:43:49.200 --> 00:43:50.909
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I don't want.
445
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:55.830
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I don't want to take any risks with you right?
446
00:43:56.020 --> 00:44:02.499
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And to me what that meant was that I don't get to experience
447
00:44:02.860 --> 00:44:09.529
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): kind of quote unquote normal life in the United States that is not accessible to me.
448
00:44:10.550 --> 00:44:17.260
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? So those were some of the experiences for me of okay.
449
00:44:17.620 --> 00:44:23.629
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): that means I have to craft ways of belonging and.
450
00:44:23.630 --> 00:44:25.520
Mark Entrekin: Fitting in right.
451
00:44:26.510 --> 00:44:27.010
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah.
452
00:44:27.010 --> 00:44:28.889
Mark Entrekin: Fitting into the Go ahead.
453
00:44:28.890 --> 00:44:37.370
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Fit fitting in and questioning why I don't. Right? Because I I think
454
00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:43.830
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): if we live up to the American ideals, we can fit in.
455
00:44:43.830 --> 00:44:47.039
Mark Entrekin: Some Americans, ideals, not all.
456
00:44:47.040 --> 00:44:54.959
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Well, see, here's what I'll say, the the ideal of America. Right like I
457
00:44:55.270 --> 00:44:58.300
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm I'm a constitutional scholar. I've read.
458
00:44:58.430 --> 00:45:09.269
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): studied all of that, especially coming from an autocratic country, I've always had huge admiration for what America stands for.
459
00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:14.700
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think the way I see it. If
460
00:45:15.640 --> 00:45:23.500
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): we live up to the ideals of America right? Like the experiment itself, you can fit in
461
00:45:23.630 --> 00:45:27.389
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and stand out without any consequence.
462
00:45:28.540 --> 00:45:30.830
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think that's where we're failing
463
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:33.369
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right now you have to fit in.
464
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:40.260
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): If you don't, if you stand out, if you are that skinny, dark-skinned Sri Lankan.
465
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:43.769
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): trying to play ice hockey, there's a consequence for that.
466
00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:48.310
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That, I think, is where we're failing. The American ideal.
467
00:45:48.700 --> 00:45:57.200
Mark Entrekin: Okay. Now let me play with you a little bit, because again, I look up to you to in the respect I have for you. But I'm gonna try to place some. Okay.
468
00:45:57.330 --> 00:46:01.019
Mark Entrekin: Now let's look at this. Here I am, all white guy.
469
00:46:01.160 --> 00:46:08.229
Mark Entrekin: and by a lot of by, by a lot of social constructs. I think I'm just a lighter color tan than others, but and.
470
00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:08.610
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Sure.
471
00:46:08.610 --> 00:46:10.020
Mark Entrekin: Art
472
00:46:10.060 --> 00:46:15.629
Mark Entrekin: still shared that with me. He says there is no race. Some of us are just lighter colored. Some of us are darker colored.
473
00:46:16.110 --> 00:46:20.690
Mark Entrekin: But when I went to Mexico I spent the winter in Mexico 2 winters ago.
474
00:46:21.180 --> 00:46:27.590
Mark Entrekin: I had some of those same, maybe reverse prejudices in that process.
475
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:31.970
Mark Entrekin: When I went to France and Italy back in 2,013,
476
00:46:32.150 --> 00:46:37.950
Mark Entrekin: some of the same things, because I couldn't speak the language now. Luckily my son was there, and he spoke French fluently.
477
00:46:38.680 --> 00:46:45.260
Mark Entrekin: But I was able to see some of the other side of those prejudicial issues.
478
00:46:45.370 --> 00:46:49.559
Mark Entrekin: So when I look at Americans, I do see that
479
00:46:49.930 --> 00:46:55.000
Mark Entrekin: strain of popularity that you're talking about here in America.
480
00:46:55.230 --> 00:46:58.030
Mark Entrekin: But I also speak on politics
481
00:46:58.130 --> 00:47:02.519
Mark Entrekin: with the what I call the riddle. RIDL.
482
00:47:02.610 --> 00:47:10.650
Mark Entrekin: Republican, independent, Democratic libertarian. Why is it such a riddle to build a better world for our children?
483
00:47:10.890 --> 00:47:15.320
Mark Entrekin: Even when we look at those, each of those parties? And we just saw the parties just come out
484
00:47:15.530 --> 00:47:18.009
Mark Entrekin: huge back in November.
485
00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:19.040
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes.
486
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.480
Mark Entrekin: Not just a short couple, you know, month ago.
487
00:47:22.936 --> 00:47:28.740
Mark Entrekin: But the point I guess I'm making here is is probably the theoretical 20%
488
00:47:28.850 --> 00:47:37.180
Mark Entrekin: of the Republicans, 20% of the Independents and 20% of the Democratic and 20% libertarians. And there's the other.
489
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.360
Mark Entrekin: But it's there's a smaller percentage
490
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:47.110
Mark Entrekin: of the extremes in each of those that bring out the good
491
00:47:47.810 --> 00:47:54.030
Mark Entrekin: more than negative for each one of those. And we look at across America, and when we do a vote.
492
00:47:54.250 --> 00:47:57.650
Mark Entrekin: If we could vote across America for something.
493
00:47:57.820 --> 00:48:01.090
Mark Entrekin: we come together more on listening.
494
00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:07.250
Mark Entrekin: But we always have that 20%, and that based on the Pareto principle, 80 20 rule.
495
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:07.820
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Sure.
496
00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:11.520
Mark Entrekin: It's not always 20. Sometimes it's 5, sometimes it's 40%. But
497
00:48:11.660 --> 00:48:19.600
Mark Entrekin: we still have that extreme being a minor part of it that are, aren't they?
498
00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:28.149
Mark Entrekin: Addressing a reputation for all? And is that's what I can say in America.
499
00:48:28.160 --> 00:48:29.479
Mark Entrekin: We have
500
00:48:29.490 --> 00:48:39.770
Mark Entrekin: a lot of negative attitudes toward us, and I saw it down to Mexico. I saw a lot of people that were American that would be become aggravated because the person couldn't understand them.
501
00:48:40.020 --> 00:48:42.979
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I mean, you're in theoretically their country.
502
00:48:43.390 --> 00:48:51.160
Mark Entrekin: They you want. You want you like I tried to do. I tried to speak the language when I was there. I did. Okay, but I know. I
503
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:55.389
Mark Entrekin: wish I could have done better, but we portray
504
00:48:55.670 --> 00:49:03.470
Mark Entrekin: a large percentage of us, which may still only be the 20% a an aura
505
00:49:04.040 --> 00:49:10.240
Mark Entrekin: that gives us that name which maybe was that maybe just an inverse of a prejudice. Also.
506
00:49:10.820 --> 00:49:13.320
Mark Entrekin: I mean, I said a lot there. But go ahead.
507
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:20.810
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, yeah, Mark, I think there are. There's some really useful points that you're bringing up right?
508
00:49:20.970 --> 00:49:22.750
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think the
509
00:49:24.530 --> 00:49:41.059
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): The evaluations aren't necessarily individual right? Like one of the things that I often have to explain is that
510
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.159
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I do deij work.
511
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.100
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That doesn't mean I have anything against white people.
512
00:49:49.780 --> 00:49:57.050
Mark Entrekin: My problem is not with white people. My problem is with whiteness as an ideology.
513
00:49:57.410 --> 00:49:59.839
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): My problem isn't with men.
514
00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:03.180
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): It is with patriarchy.
515
00:50:03.710 --> 00:50:17.120
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): My problem isn't with heterosexuality. It is about heteronormativity, right? There's a difference between people and ideologies.
516
00:50:17.310 --> 00:50:20.199
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and what I would argue. Oh, sorry! Go ahead.
517
00:50:20.200 --> 00:50:24.899
Mark Entrekin: Well, and that's a judgment. That's the people who judge others in a lot of ways.
518
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:25.530
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes.
519
00:50:25.530 --> 00:50:27.829
Mark Entrekin: Not in like you're talking about.
520
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:29.900
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes, I do.
521
00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:31.920
Mark Entrekin: It was justice, fraud. But we're talking about. Go ahead.
522
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:38.860
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, ideologies are precisely that they are evaluations backed up by power.
523
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.439
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? I can evaluate you as good or bad.
524
00:50:42.640 --> 00:50:45.179
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And then, because of my evaluation.
525
00:50:45.230 --> 00:50:53.320
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm going to stop you from getting whatever you want, or stop you from getting what is valued. Not so.
526
00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:56.250
Mark Entrekin: You don't deserve it, but I don't like you.
527
00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:06.310
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Exactly that. Exactly that right? So that is so. The Deij project, especially that last part. The justice part
528
00:51:06.380 --> 00:51:08.220
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): is not about people.
529
00:51:08.590 --> 00:51:10.059
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): It is about
530
00:51:10.120 --> 00:51:19.190
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): ideologies. It is about systems that encode ideologies right? And I would argue that whiteness as an ideology
531
00:51:19.310 --> 00:51:26.279
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): harms white people, perhaps less than black and brown people, but it harms white people, too.
532
00:51:26.310 --> 00:51:29.190
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right like, if you think about it. Patriarchy
533
00:51:30.149 --> 00:51:33.750
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): is something that favors masculinity.
534
00:51:34.020 --> 00:51:40.800
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): but it harms men, too. Right like patriarchy is the reason why 2 men can't have an intimate friendship.
535
00:51:41.740 --> 00:51:49.079
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? Patriarchy is the reason why men can't cry without being judged why you judge.
536
00:51:49.310 --> 00:51:54.350
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and then you withhold what is valuable to them. That's what an ideology is.
537
00:51:54.810 --> 00:52:00.460
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right. So a a lot of what we have to explain when we go into
538
00:52:00.550 --> 00:52:04.719
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): C-suites or organizations is to say.
539
00:52:05.350 --> 00:52:09.380
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the resistance has to be focused at the etiologies.
540
00:52:09.550 --> 00:52:15.680
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But you embrace with love the people right? Because the Deij project
541
00:52:15.710 --> 00:52:18.940
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): has to be an addition project.
542
00:52:19.030 --> 00:52:23.139
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We have to bring more and more people into the fold.
543
00:52:23.250 --> 00:52:25.009
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We can't say
544
00:52:25.230 --> 00:52:31.549
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I'm a Deij practitioner. I don't want anything to do with white people that's not going to work.
545
00:52:31.550 --> 00:52:32.469
Mark Entrekin: Oh, that does not work!
546
00:52:32.470 --> 00:52:33.390
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): People, I.
547
00:52:33.390 --> 00:52:39.719
Mark Entrekin: Or any other people. But then again, we're all again. Art still would just impress me also.
548
00:52:39.810 --> 00:52:43.609
Mark Entrekin: But again, we're just different. Shades of tan.
549
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:53.060
Mark Entrekin: Some are darker, some are lighter. There's no really true black person. There's no really true white person. We are just different shades of tan. And why do we judge
550
00:52:53.090 --> 00:52:57.399
Mark Entrekin: again that extreme on either side of Tan.
551
00:52:57.610 --> 00:53:07.430
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, I think you're right. There really isn't, you know, in in the kind of objective sense there aren't white people and black people.
552
00:53:07.640 --> 00:53:17.110
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): but whiteness and blackness as ideologies are very real. Right? Like, we've built an entire world
553
00:53:17.150 --> 00:53:21.410
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): based on those kind of ideologies.
554
00:53:21.948 --> 00:53:30.429
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think that that is too often the rub right that we conflate ideologies with people.
555
00:53:30.460 --> 00:53:37.670
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We say, right? And and I think that's and I think that's where
556
00:53:37.710 --> 00:53:41.570
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): the value of curiosity in storytelling
557
00:53:42.180 --> 00:53:47.290
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): matters, because that allows us to separate ideologies from people.
558
00:53:47.620 --> 00:53:52.879
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I fundamentally believe that we are loving people. Ultimately.
559
00:53:54.060 --> 00:53:59.890
Mark Entrekin: And it's that like you mentioned. And so, as we talked about early in the call, that caring.
560
00:54:00.290 --> 00:54:01.950
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Doesn't. It's.
561
00:54:02.030 --> 00:54:10.800
Mark Entrekin: Not about going to extremes, but just caring for each other to the point of saying, you're valuable, too.
562
00:54:11.410 --> 00:54:12.170
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yes.
563
00:54:12.170 --> 00:54:15.809
Mark Entrekin: And be able to take that and grow that forward.
564
00:54:16.120 --> 00:54:19.870
Mark Entrekin: putting ourselves arm in arm without any kind of judgment.
565
00:54:20.310 --> 00:54:23.519
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But there's some of the patriarchs that have done well.
566
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:25.099
Mark Entrekin: For value.
567
00:54:25.470 --> 00:54:32.650
Mark Entrekin: And there's many patriarchs, patriarchs that have not done well by a taking value away from others.
568
00:54:32.750 --> 00:54:34.660
Mark Entrekin: So that's why I'm very
569
00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:42.699
Mark Entrekin: stringent on trying. You know, there's a percentage of how much I'm trying about this. I'm doing something
570
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:48.159
Mark Entrekin: to make sure that we understand what we're talking about when we toss these words around.
571
00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:50.910
Mark Entrekin: and I appreciate you just describing that
572
00:54:50.970 --> 00:54:56.310
Mark Entrekin: from the whiteness and the blackness of what these words mean, and.
573
00:54:56.310 --> 00:54:56.850
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Hmm.
574
00:54:57.110 --> 00:54:59.369
Mark Entrekin: They can be different to different people, right?
575
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:07.870
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I I think right. The evaluation piece is always going to be different, right like to and and
576
00:55:09.180 --> 00:55:13.150
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): But I think the construct of how ideologies work.
577
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:17.390
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): It's fairly unitary. There's always the evaluation.
578
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:21.330
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and it's always backed up by some kind of power, right? Like
579
00:55:21.430 --> 00:55:30.460
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): what the evaluation is. What kind of power you actually exercise that will change. But ideologies always have those 2 fundamental components.
580
00:55:30.530 --> 00:55:33.900
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And so part of it is.
581
00:55:34.366 --> 00:55:41.980
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): kind of like what you're talking about resisting that urge to judge or evaluate, and kind of
582
00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:52.689
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): resisting this kind of exercise of power over people to say, because I made that judgment. You're not going to get XY or Z
583
00:55:52.760 --> 00:56:00.870
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right like that, I think, is the larger project right? Like, if we want to get to that idea of inclusion and belonging.
584
00:56:00.970 --> 00:56:09.350
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): and justice, then recognizing ideologies at work and disrupting them, becomes the central kind of.
585
00:56:09.630 --> 00:56:11.019
Mark Entrekin: On the maximum.
586
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:16.369
Mark Entrekin: You make so many good points right there. When you talk about that, Shindu, that
587
00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:19.159
Mark Entrekin: there's so much to those points.
588
00:56:19.290 --> 00:56:26.859
Mark Entrekin: One of our articles this week is coming out next Thursday will be about assumptions, expectations, and opinions.
589
00:56:27.910 --> 00:56:31.150
Mark Entrekin: How do they work together, or do they not.
590
00:56:31.150 --> 00:56:31.490
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah.
591
00:56:31.490 --> 00:56:32.639
Mark Entrekin: Work together.
592
00:56:32.990 --> 00:56:34.800
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So, yeah, all right, we have.
593
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:35.910
Mark Entrekin: Forward to reading that.
594
00:56:35.910 --> 00:56:43.229
Mark Entrekin: Oh, please, and go to my markettricken.com forward, slash podcast forward, slash, blog!
595
00:56:43.270 --> 00:56:46.170
Mark Entrekin: I would love to have your feedback. Everyone on this call
596
00:56:46.180 --> 00:56:52.610
Mark Entrekin: anyone that listens to this. I want your feedback. And speaking of feedback, we only have a few minutes left.
597
00:56:52.870 --> 00:56:56.070
Mark Entrekin: I want to just tell you again, Shindu, this has been awesome.
598
00:56:56.390 --> 00:57:02.110
Mark Entrekin: I'd like to have maybe just a couple of minutes little bit of closure of
599
00:57:02.690 --> 00:57:11.759
Mark Entrekin: the good that you have done, and maybe mention some of the good that you have done, and what you and I and our audience can do to help this grow
600
00:57:11.870 --> 00:57:15.959
Mark Entrekin: go toward world peace as we end the call.
601
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:21.679
Mark Entrekin: but continue on in making that world peace more accessible. What are your thoughts.
602
00:57:23.310 --> 00:57:27.710
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Yeah, I think fundamental to our work is the ethic of love
603
00:57:28.160 --> 00:57:30.759
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): right? And the way we talk about love
604
00:57:31.180 --> 00:57:42.849
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): is, imagine if every decision you make is in the service of someone else's personal, professional, spiritual growth.
605
00:57:43.180 --> 00:57:48.528
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Right? Like, if you have to make a decision about anyone in your network,
606
00:57:49.430 --> 00:57:57.739
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): make that decision with their personal, professional, or spiritual growth in mind. If it works to advance any of those, do it if it doesn't, don't.
607
00:57:58.310 --> 00:58:01.050
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): So it's a very simple heuristic.
608
00:58:01.270 --> 00:58:10.590
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And we built equity labs on that principle. That is our guiding star.
609
00:58:10.820 --> 00:58:21.779
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That's the only way we make decisions. And what I can tell you is that you can build a business like that and quadruple your revenue in 4 years.
610
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:28.460
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): We don't have to be strict consumers. We can be loving consumers.
611
00:58:28.730 --> 00:58:29.620
Mark Entrekin: We can.
612
00:58:30.990 --> 00:58:34.150
Mark Entrekin: I like that. And that way that we can work together.
613
00:58:34.200 --> 00:58:36.639
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): That loving, that just caring.
614
00:58:36.810 --> 00:58:41.140
Mark Entrekin: That we are all the same as I've mentioned before.
615
00:58:41.270 --> 00:58:46.360
Mark Entrekin: There are only 4 blood types in this world, or blood types. Some people call them blood groups.
616
00:58:46.430 --> 00:58:57.109
Mark Entrekin: A, BAB, and O, and no matter where you are, no matter how light color your skin might be, no matter how dark color your skin might be anywhere in between, whether you're in
617
00:58:57.180 --> 00:59:03.480
Mark Entrekin: South America, North America, Central America, China, Russia, wherever Scandinavia, Australia.
618
00:59:03.660 --> 00:59:06.369
Mark Entrekin: we all have those same 4 blood types.
619
00:59:06.520 --> 00:59:08.229
Mark Entrekin: So, no matter where you are.
620
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:11.940
Mark Entrekin: you know that person next to you could be
621
00:59:12.490 --> 00:59:17.589
Mark Entrekin: your blood brother in more ways than one, that love circulation
622
00:59:17.770 --> 00:59:21.559
Mark Entrekin: that we get together to share, because we are all the same.
623
00:59:21.680 --> 00:59:25.330
Mark Entrekin: And I think that. And I could just carry that just a bit further, because
624
00:59:25.750 --> 00:59:27.809
Mark Entrekin: we are all the same, and
625
00:59:27.910 --> 00:59:29.879
Mark Entrekin: that love and caring for each other
626
00:59:30.220 --> 00:59:34.219
Mark Entrekin: is only going to show the value that we can create for tomorrow. Right?
627
00:59:35.470 --> 00:59:38.960
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): And I think, importantly, we're all capable of love.
628
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:43.230
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think that comes easy to us if we want to let it happen.
629
00:59:43.810 --> 00:59:46.860
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): I think we're all capable of love.
630
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:52.099
Mark Entrekin: I agree. And I think that's 1 of the things we have learned. We talked about culture and learning earlier.
631
00:59:52.150 --> 01:00:00.910
Mark Entrekin: for somehow we talk about the masculinity that we think that love is feminine, so to speak, and not masculine
632
01:00:01.080 --> 01:00:09.419
Mark Entrekin: by somebody's social construct, and they think that they have to be hateful or angry, or spiteful
633
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:14.720
Mark Entrekin: to be strong, and it's just not so right.
634
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:20.810
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Nope, it is not, and that's 1 more way that patriarchy harms men.
635
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:39.099
Mark Entrekin: So true, Shindu. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time today. It's an honor to have you here. I hope we can continue these conversations. Hope you'll come back on the show in 2025, maybe something 1st or second quarter. Let's talk again, and let's see what we can do.
636
01:00:39.190 --> 01:00:42.769
Mark Entrekin: going forward to make this world a better place.
637
01:00:43.150 --> 01:00:45.509
Chenthu Jayton (he/him/his): Absolutely thank you so much for having me. Mark.
638
01:00:45.510 --> 01:00:54.919
Mark Entrekin: My pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you to the guest at least, thank you for your comments, appreciate all of you, enjoy your day, and hope happy holidays to everyone.
639
01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:58.269
Anaiis Salles: I felt like a real eavesdrover. Somebody sent me the link to come.
640
01:00:58.270 --> 01:01:00.969
Mark Entrekin: Okay, thank you all so much. Cheers.
641
01:01:01.240 --> 01:01:01.665
Mark Entrekin: Bye.
